Rick Crawford
Tom and I first crossed paths about ten years ago when we were in the same MBA in Sustainable Business program at Marylhurst University and discovered we were both fly anglers, and managed to stay in touch over the years as we are both passionate about fly fishing and sustainability. I married my passions and started Emerger Strategies, and Tom married his passions by working as COO of Woodbine Hospitality Group, who has sustainably developed several properties via adaptive-reuse such as Tailwater Lodge and the LEED Platinum certified, Hotel Skylar in and around the Syracuse, New York area.
It’s funny how paths cross in this life, and I am grateful mine crossed with Tom’s as he is not only a great guy, but is doing some seriously interesting sustainability work with Woodbine Hospitality Group.
Q. Tell me a little bit about yourself….
A. I am the COO and Communications Officer for Woodbine Group, which doesn’t sound super fishy, but we are a real-estate development company that specializes in adaptive reuse projects. One of our properties is the Tailwater Lodge, which is an adaptive reuse of an elementary school and located on the Salmon River, which is a world-class salmon and steelhead fishery in the Northeast with fish running out of Lake Ontario. Tailwater Lodge is also an Orvis-endorsed lodge and we work closely with the local guide community to provide a unique experience and great to mix in some fishing with our real estate development business.
Tailwater Lodge’s most sustainable feature is that it is an adaptive reuse. For example, if you look at the restaurant floor, it’s the old gymnasium floor that kids used to play basketball and dodgeball on which is super cool, and we utilized every same door and window cut from a material standpoint.
Tom Fernandez
Q. What drew you to fly fishing and sustainability?
A. I lived out in Durango, CO for a little while and spent a lot of time fishing in Southwest Colorado, Utah and Arizona and think those are some of the most beautiful places on earth. When I moved back to the Northeast, I was dying for a reason to get back on the water. The water here is great, but it’s not the big, long and beautiful rivers out west. I was looking for a reason to get back out on the water and forgot just how great the fly fishing was here on the Salmon River and Delaware River with these picky browns and a lot of local streams in the finger lake areas, and there are tributaries everywhere.
On the sustainability side, I enjoy working for a family business that has done a lot to reinvigorate Syracuse, New York, and upstate New York in general. We are a rust-belt city that saw huge growth with industry and then saw that growth vaporize, so we have a lot of abandoned buildings that were once beautiful, but were left to rot.
Woodbine Group was actually sustainable before “sustainability” was a thing by looking at these buildings and seeing if we could bring something to market that was both good for the city and profitable. As we developed, we started to see more and more of what is going on such as problems with our sewer systems, rainwater runoff, and we are working on buildings that haven’t been updated since the 60s and 70s. It really got us thinking that we need to do more and that was with Hotel Skyler, which is a LEED Platinum project and started out as just a sustainable project that we were trying to find ways to mitigate stormwater runoff and have sound energy practices, but LEED provided a process for meeting these goals and having a team that works towards achieving these sustainability goals, we went all in. We build very environmentally soundly, work closely with local contractors and try to have the least amount of environmental impact as possible and got the perfect mix with Tailwater Lodge of adaptive reuse and being able to fish!
Tailwater Lodge’s most sustainable feature is that it is an adaptive reuse. For example, if you look at the restaurant floor, it’s the old gymnasium floor that kids used to play basketball and dodgeball on which is super cool, and we utilized every same door and window cut from a material standpoint. So, the building really stayed the same and we brought in some high efficiency electric and re-did the plumbing. We utilize a well system that is super-efficient and from an indoor air quality perspective, all of our wall finishing’s and carpet have no off-gassing, so really all of the features a LEED building would have, but just being sustainably built, and not LEED certified. (Side note, for those of you unfamiliar with green building and LEED, please click HERE)
Q. Can you elaborate more on adaptive reuse?
A. Adaptive reuse is purchasing a property that was built for something else. If we look another property that we manage, it was an old National Guard Armory and they are really solidly built and excellent structures and we acquired one and turned it into an apartment complex. Just finding buildings that would otherwise be left to rot and finding a new use for them that wasn’t their initial intent.
Q. What effects of climate change are most concerning to you?
A. Now that we own Tailwater Lodge, we have really become farmers. We rely on the weather, which can make or break what we have going on at the Lodge because we have two primary activities, which are snowmobiling and fly fishing. If it’s raining, if it’s not raining. If it’s snowing, if it’s not snowing. For example, in both the 2013 and 2014 winters we had incredibly cold winters where Lake Ontario froze, and I need to fact check this, but I believe this is one of the few times the Great Lakes froze two years in a row. It changes the temperature of the lake, which effects bait fish that impact the steelhead and also interrupts the snowmobiling. It really has a detrimental effect when we have these huge temperature swings towards cold, and especially when the lake freezes, we get a very small year class of alewives and without that base we see a lot of problems with our salmon. It’s an incredible sport fishery and we see poor returns from the lake, poor spawning, as well as detrimental health problems resulting from the steelhead, and the fish act like they have whirling disease with these temperature swings.
On the flip side we are seeing record breaking lake levels, as well as record runoff. Lake Ontario rose two miles into the Salmon River and we had water up to our front door. We are also seeing more trash and waste water making its way into the lake from the rainwater runoff. So, we are witnessing huge temperature swings and fluctuations in lake and river levels. It’s something we are trying to get a grasp of and I think we are at risk.
Also, out west, they are seeing less snow pack and more wildfires, which is affecting cold water species like trout, and we are now seeing enough climate change impacts to begin reacting.
Q. Can you talk a little bit more about what Tailwater Lodge is doing to react and fight climate change?
A. Well, as we discussed we have done a lot related to energy efficiency, but we are also addressing habitat, so we are trying to make sure our impact on our local habitat is minimized because we are definitely bringing more people into the area. We are actually working and engaging with a few people to do a solar farm, which is probably going to be our next move. We also explored going geothermal but the aquifer is so high we couldn’t get the depth.
So, sustainability has also enabled us to deliver a higher level of customer satisfaction, which is really cool. You see that there is a correlation with people in understanding that there is something different about this property that actually makes me feel different.
Tom Fernandez
Q. What have been some of the benefits of sustainability for your lodge?
A. The one that stands out the most is the geothermal system at Hotel Skylar. We have been operating there for about seven years now and have a geothermal heat source and haven’t used any ancillary heating or cooling since we opened, which is really impressive because in upstate New York, we see 100-degree temps in the summer and 20-degree temps in the winter. So, to be able to use geothermal is really a testament to what you can do because I think they estimated a 5-year payback and the geothermal system had a 3.5-year payback, so from a bottom-line perspective this is the direction we will be doing moving on new projects.
Also, what we learned with insulation and the building envelope. We used spray foam insulation which really helps from an energy efficiency perspective, but equally as important is that it is comfortable for our guests. We can build the most sustainable building in the world, but if our guests are uncomfortable then it doesn’t matter. So, sustainability has also enabled us to deliver a higher level of customer satisfaction, which is really cool. You see that there is a correlation with people in understanding that there is something different about this property that actually makes me feel different. I think that’s something that will help drive sustainability and we have people reach out to us to ask about our building process and what we have done because they enjoyed their stay so much.
Q. Do y’all have any educational components to your building related to your green building practices?
A. At Hotel Skylar we have some digital frames around the property about our green building and geothermal heating system actually is. At Tailwater Lodge, we provide educational training to our staff because people are on vacation and they want to hang out and ask questions about the history of the property as well as the green building and adaptive reuse questions.
Q. What have been some challenges you faced in making your properties more sustainable?
A. We have some really rough winters, so that adds a challenge as we want to move sustainably and quickly. Another example is the geothermal system at Hotel Skylar, when we went to get permitting, we found out that in order to go more than 499 feet you need a mining permit and we didn’t have that. So, we re-engineered the system so we didn’t have to get a mining permit, so that was interesting! Other than that, from a sourcing materials perspective, verifying that the claims the manufacturer are making are meeting their sustainability credentials and finding that supporting documentation. For example, if they are claiming the material is sourced locally or sustainably harvested, we need to be able to verify that.
Q. What’s something you wish other lodge owners knew about sustainable business?
A. As it relates to development and fly fishing, especially in the northeast, I see a lot of opportunity for sustainable fishing lodges, and for us, it was a risk that paid off because Tailwater Lodge was a salmon fishery that was only popular six months out of the year. For us, to spread out population and utilize some of these areas that need to see some sustainable growth, I think there is a lot of upside to taking that risk to increase sustainable growth and opportunity in these under-developed markets. I would say go for it because it helps to reinvigorate some of these areas that are underutilized and do it in a sustainable way.
I also think the next step is making sure we are working closely with the environment and local economies, which has lead us to some amazing opportunities and sustainable growth.
Q. What are y’all doing to use your business to affect positive change?
A. The people we work with every day, our employees. I think utilizing locals that show pride in what they do, and care about where they work and live changes the community for the better. Climate change is a global issue that also affects what’s happening in our front yard, so when you are proud of your front yard, it’s not reaching to think that we can collectively as individuals make positive change happen by taking care of our own communities. I am really proud of what we do and that there is some positive change happening for the greater good.
TAKE ACTION
Special thanks to Tom Fernandez for taking the time to discuss green building and sustainable development, and for not just talking the talk, but walking the walk. If you are in the Syracuse, New York area, check out one of Woodbine Hospitality Group’s sustainable properties, and don’t miss out on fishing the Salmon River at Tailwater Lodge.
As with the products we choose to buy, we vote with our dollars every single day that send market signals and can drive our economy in the right direction, and it’s no different for the resorts and hotels where we vacation. Whether you are planning a bonefishing trip to the Bahamas, fishing for steelhead in upstate New York, or taking the family to Costa Rica, take a deeper dive into the lodge or resorts website and check out what sustainability features they have to offer. By supporting lodges, eco-resorts and any other businesses that have gone the extra mile to ensure their operations and products protect the environment, you are helping to drive competition, which breeds more sustainable lodges, eco-resorts and businesses.
Thank you for taking the time to read The Sustainable Angler, and stay tuned as we have some exciting new guests as well as more podcasts and Q&A style interviews coming your way!